AssociationBoardMinutes20191010

• 10 Sep 2019
• IRC Chat on #foswiki-association channel

Attendees

• JulianLevens
• KennethLavrsen
• LynnwoodBrown
• MarkusUeberall
• MichaelDaum

Agenda

1. planning for a next general assembly
2. status of current memberships
3. status of the project
4. regular release meetings
5. new release manager
6. new release plan

Meeting Summary

1. Net GA 28th Nov 2019 @ 12:00 UTC
2. Accounts and membership info sorted out in next two weeks
3. Email ref GA follows from 2, ActiveMembers plus recent participants in the last few years
4. Project is dormant and we (the board) collectively need to add spark to project
   1. Videos need to be produced
   2. More release management activity
5. JulianLevens voluterred to be RM from January
   1. New time of 17:30PM CET
   2. Meetings to resume as best as possible in the meantime

Minutes

4:00:39 PM	uebera||  Ah… Hi there!
4:00:52 PM	FoswikiOnSlack   Hi
4:01:09 PM	Lynnwood  If anyone doesn't have it open, here's the agenda: https://foswiki.org/Community/AssociationBoardMinutes20191010
4:01:15 PM	uebera||  thx!
4:01:34 PM	MichaelDaum  we still miss one board member: Kenneth
4:01:53 PM	Lynnwood  Ok, are we ready to get started? Perhaps we can get confirmation of who's here (if you haven't already spoken up).
4:02:25 PM	MichaelDaum  I send an email to kenneth in case he forgot
4:03:09 PM	Lynnwood  Perhaps we can proceed, delaying final decisions on major items for awhile to give Kenneth time to show up.
4:03:45 PM	MichaelDaum  JulianLevens, you are there?
4:03:53 PM	uebera||  (Technically, we don't need/already meet a quorum, right?)
4:03:58 PM	FoswikiOnSlack   I'm here
4:04:05 PM	MichaelDaum  oic, hi :)
4:04:34 PM	Lynnwood  Sure wish we could be meeting face to face. Would be great to see all of you!
4:04:43 PM	MichaelDaum  true
4:04:46 PM	uebera||  Google Hangout? :o)
4:04:49 PM	JulianLevens  Ok, I'll skip slack
4:05:04 PM	MichaelDaum  so does anybody want to add something to the agenda?
4:05:31 PM	Lynnwood  I have one small item to revisit: the foswiki trademark.
4:05:31 PM	uebera||  Maybe "7. Misc"?
4:05:53 PM	Lynnwood  The registration will lapse here in US if I don't act on it this month.
4:06:07 PM	MichaelDaum  got an email from kenneth: "fighting with irc. joining asap."
4:06:17 PM	Lynnwood  great.
4:06:29 PM	Lynnwood  so that can be added under Misc.
4:06:57 PM	Lynnwood  Shall we discuss schedule for next general assembly?
4:07:09 PM	JulianLevens  Yep
4:07:11 PM	uebera||  ok
4:07:35 PM	MichaelDaum  is it possible to have one within 2019
4:07:54 PM	Lynnwood  Seems like we should be able to.
4:08:01 PM	uebera||  IIRC, it is even mandatory, no?
4:08:17 PM	JulianLevens  From memory we need at least 6 weeks notice
4:08:40 PM	JulianLevens  Probably mandatory and 6 months ago
4:09:01 PM	 Lavr joined the channel.
4:09:07 PM	uebera||  Hi, Lavr!
4:09:23 PM	JulianLevens  Hello indeed
4:09:28 PM	Lavr  Hi. Sorry for delay. I cannot get my IRC client to work. Using the Freenode web client
4:10:11 PM	Lynnwood  6 week notice was my memory also. Trying to look it up...
4:10:17 PM	Lynnwood  Welcome Lavr!
4:11:18 PM	Lynnwood  https://foswiki.org/pub/Community/AssociationArticles/Foswiki_Association_Articles_2014-03-26.pdf
4:11:31 PM	Lynnwood  "2) The General Assembly takes place at least on- 2) Die Mitgliederversammlung findet mindestens
4:11:31 PM	Lynnwood  ce a year"
4:11:35 PM	 ChanServ gave channel operator status to MichaelDaum.
4:11:55 PM	Lynnwood  ok... i won't try copying from pdf any more.
4:12:24 PM	 ChanServ gave channel operator status to MichaelDaum.
4:12:33 PM	 MichaelDaum changed the topic to: https://foswiki.org/Community/AssociationBoardMinutes20191010.
4:13:06 PM	Lynnwood  And confirming: "The invitation must be sent at least six weeks prior to the meeting."
4:13:07 PM	uebera||  This contains the "six weeks notice".
4:13:14 PM	Lynnwood  yes
4:14:21 PM	Lynnwood  How about first week in December? Say December 5th?
4:14:53 PM	MichaelDaum  +1
4:14:57 PM	uebera||  That's a Thursday.
4:15:33 PM	uebera||  Didn't we use to choose Friday? Can't remember, to be honest.
4:15:46 PM	Lynnwood  Better day? I'm trying to remember? Weekend?
4:15:46 PM	JulianLevens  Yes Friday was always popular
4:15:55 PM	Lynnwood  I'm fine with Friday.
4:15:58 PM	MichaelDaum  me2
4:16:05 PM	Lynnwood  December 6?
4:16:06 PM	uebera||  But December the 6th might be a bad chouice.
4:16:18 PM	uebera||  For family people, that is.
4:16:27 PM	Lynnwood  how come? special day?
4:16:39 PM	MichaelDaum  Saint Nicholas Day
4:16:41 PM	uebera||  In Germany, yes.
4:16:48 PM	Lynnwood  ah. ok.
4:17:22 PM	uebera||  How about the 13th?
4:17:24 PM	Lynnwood  December 13 would be the next Friday.
4:17:30 PM	uebera||  +1
4:17:35 PM	Lynnwood  Gives us a little more time to get out email.
4:17:45 PM	MichaelDaum  Friday 13th? Hum.
4:17:48 PM	Lynnwood  +1
4:18:00 PM	Lynnwood  lol... well there's that...
4:18:31 PM	uebera||  We could choose the last Friday in November... I fear that Friday the 20th is too late, most will be on holiday? Or would that be better?
4:19:04 PM	uebera||  Also, for decisions which need to be taken in the course of this fiscal year (if any), this does not leave us with much time.
4:19:15 PM	MichaelDaum  Nov 29 is still within the limits
4:19:29 PM	Lynnwood  Yep. That's ok with me.
4:19:35 PM	uebera||  Ok... +1
4:19:45 PM	Lynnwood  Only problem is that's a sacred holiday in us. Black Friday.
4:19:50 PM	Lynnwood  lol
4:20:00 PM	Lavr  Nov 29  - that is Motorola XMAS party. I can't
4:20:02 PM	Lynnwood  +1
4:20:27 PM	Lavr  28th would be OK for me
4:20:40 PM	MichaelDaum  +1 on Nov 28
4:20:46 PM	uebera||  +1
4:20:51 PM	Lynnwood  +1 28th
4:21:30 PM	Lynnwood  Hearing any objections to the 28th? Any more Saint days or parties? busy time of year...
4:21:35 PM	JulianLevens  28th is ok for me
4:21:57 PM	Lynnwood  ok. sounds like agreement.
4:22:05 PM	MichaelDaum  awesome
4:22:24 PM	Lynnwood  I'll work on getting letter together. May need some help getting email list.
4:22:54 PM	Lynnwood  Anything else on that item?
4:23:09 PM	Lynnwood  If not, moving on to "status of current memberships"
4:23:18 PM	Lynnwood  https://foswiki.org/Community/CurrentFoswikiMembers
4:23:31 PM	Lynnwood  it's not current... or none of us are.
4:23:32 PM	MichaelDaum  I was wondering if we need to act upon this list
4:23:39 PM	Lynnwood  how so?
4:24:15 PM	MichaelDaum  let me see ... foswiki doesnt return the list atm ... slow site
4:25:04 PM	JulianLevens  Because of: https://foswiki.org/Community/MotionToSimplifyMembershipCriteria
4:25:12 PM	JulianLevens  it's only paid up members
4:25:21 PM	JulianLevens  There were only 7 or 8 last count
4:25:41 PM	uebera||  (/me just killed a 2.5GB foswiki.fcgi task)
4:25:42 PM	Lynnwood  Shall we send out invite and reminder to members who have been active within past 3 or 4 years?
4:26:00 PM	uebera||  +1
4:26:01 PM	MichaelDaum  yes thats what I was wondering
4:26:15 PM	Lynnwood  ok, i understand.
4:26:20 PM	 MichaelDaum paying fees for 2019 right away
4:26:21 PM	Lynnwood  Sounds good to me.
4:26:39 PM	Lavr  Me too :-)
4:26:39 PM	 Lynnwood will pay dues after meeting
4:26:44 PM	Lynnwood  :-)
4:26:45 PM	uebera||  btw, you might want to pay your membership, yes.
4:27:05 PM	uebera||  And maybe relieve Oliver from his task to keep track of the payments as he requested.
4:27:19 PM	JulianLevens  That should be with me
4:27:35 PM	JulianLevens  I understand bank accounts have been transferred to me
4:28:07 PM	JulianLevens  I haven't checked that out
4:28:27 PM	JulianLevens  That could be a problem
4:28:30 PM	JulianLevens  or not
4:28:52 PM	Lynnwood  Just check it out before the meeting.
4:29:10 PM	JulianLevens  Need to do way before meeting
4:29:13 PM	Lynnwood  or contact board if you come across big problem that we need to address.
4:29:37 PM	JulianLevens  I need to be sure I can produce financial report that the auditors can see in advance
4:29:46 PM	Lynnwood  right
4:30:02 PM	JulianLevens  I'll be moving house in a few weeks
4:30:10 PM	JulianLevens  My house sold in principle
4:30:23 PM	JulianLevens  Just need to find new place etc etc etc
4:30:39 PM	Lynnwood  yikes! you will be busy.
4:30:48 PM	Lynnwood  can you get this done?
4:30:49 PM	JulianLevens  Stress city
4:31:00 PM	JulianLevens  I don't know
4:31:08 PM	JulianLevens  If access proves simple
4:31:43 PM	JulianLevens  Then updating a relatively small number of entries should not be a problem
4:31:55 PM	Lynnwood  Perhaps you can start process and see what kind of issues you run into and then let us know if there's any way others can help.
4:32:01 PM	JulianLevens  There just that word 'if' in there though
4:32:37 PM	JulianLevens  I'll do what I can in the next week or two, I can at least assess the situation better
4:32:47 PM	Lynnwood  Sounds good.
4:32:51 PM	MichaelDaum  so which members need a membership notification?
4:33:01 PM	MichaelDaum  which ones will change their status?
4:33:54 PM	MichaelDaum  we've got 26 members that have not paid since 2016
4:33:57 PM	MichaelDaum  afaics
4:34:22 PM	Lynnwood  I would propose reaching out to any who have been active within past 3 or 5 years on chance to bring them back in.
4:34:39 PM	Lynnwood  invitation to renew and attend assembly.
4:34:47 PM	uebera||  Sounds good.
4:34:51 PM	MichaelDaum  ok good
4:35:31 PM	Lavr  It is only Colas that paid 2017 and not 2018  - so he should get a chance to catch up. Rest just need to pay for 2019.
4:35:33 PM	MichaelDaum  wow: we've got 5 members that paid last in 2011
4:35:39 PM	Lavr  Please put info how to pay.
4:35:55 PM	Lynnwood  ok. good point.
4:35:56 PM	Lavr  EVen I cannot remember
4:36:09 PM	JulianLevens  I think apart from us 5, Crawford, Oliver and George were members as of 2017
4:36:22 PM	uebera||  Lavr: https://foswiki.org/Community/Finance/WebHome
4:37:05 PM	uebera||  Please remember that we officially need to have seven members at all times according to local association law.
4:37:19 PM	Lynnwood  yikes
4:37:32 PM	JulianLevens  I've set up a standing order to Foswiki to be paid in December every year for the following year
4:37:35 PM	Lynnwood  i'll sign up our dog and a couple of chickens
4:38:09 PM	JulianLevens  I'd ask you all to do the same
4:38:21 PM	Lynnwood  JulianLevens - good idea. I'll do that this time.
4:38:35 PM	JulianLevens  My little Christmas present to Foswiki
4:38:42 PM	Lynnwood  Sounds good.
4:38:59 PM	Lynnwood  anything else on "status of current memberships"?
4:39:01 PM	MichaelDaum  dont' forget to update https://foswiki.org/Community/CurrentFoswikiMembers
4:39:20 PM	Lynnwood  Yes, should be done prior to assembly.
4:39:42 PM	Lynnwood  And should I assume the membership revision will be on agenda for assembly?
4:39:51 PM	JulianLevens  I'll update that
4:40:06 PM	JulianLevens  It's arguably treasury responsibility
4:40:09 PM	MichaelDaum  JulianLevens, you already paid last december? can't see this on https://foswiki.org/Community/Finance/FinancialStatement2018
4:40:27 PM	MichaelDaum  nor mine
4:40:36 PM	JulianLevens  Now it's based on payment only
4:40:42 PM	MichaelDaum  ah mine is there
4:40:55 PM	JulianLevens  Yes but payments only recorded up to end 2017 by Oliver
4:41:10 PM	JulianLevens  I need to take over and *nothing* has yet been entered
4:41:23 PM	uebera||  Right, mine's missing (from 27-11-2018)
4:41:34 PM	Lavr  I am now a full member again ;-)
4:42:00 PM	MichaelDaum  Lavr, though your user profile says you are inactive: https://foswiki.org/Main/KennethLavrsen
4:42:21 PM	JulianLevens  Actually, Oliver has entered some 2018 payments
4:44:34 PM	MichaelDaum  anything else on 2)?
4:44:36 PM	Lynnwood  Sorry... trying to remember the amount of membership?
4:44:40 PM	MichaelDaum  10€
4:44:40 PM	uebera||  JulianLevens: "At least two months before the annual General Assembly the Board will update the Active Members list in accordance with the outcome of the review."
4:44:57 PM	uebera||  So we need to think about the timing.
4:45:13 PM	Lynnwood  MichaelDaum - thanks
4:45:17 PM	Lynnwood  ouch
4:46:12 PM	JulianLevens  Better be done today then
4:46:13 PM	Lynnwood  So we have a dilemma: not fulfill requirement for annual meeting or not fulfill requirement for time of review of active members.
4:46:28 PM	Lavr  Best effort is what we can do. More important to have the meeting.
4:46:34 PM	Lynnwood  agreed
4:47:03 PM	Lynnwood  Let's proceed.
4:47:33 PM	Lynnwood  Moving on to 3: status of the project
4:47:36 PM	Lynnwood  fun
4:47:58 PM	Lavr  I have a meeting at 17:00 for half an hour. But then I can join again.
4:48:25 PM	Lavr  I can lurk but not type
4:48:54 PM	Lynnwood  ok
4:49:40 PM	MichaelDaum  status of the project: dormant
4:50:04 PM	Lynnwood  Generous enough statement...
4:50:17 PM	MichaelDaum  we've almost lost all devs
4:51:02 PM	MichaelDaum  the prev release manager left - and we didnt elect a new one.
4:51:25 PM	MichaelDaum  nobody feels inclined to join the release meetings ... for a long time now
4:51:33 PM	JulianLevens  BTW: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=28&month=11&year=2019&p1=179&p2=136&p3=16&p4=57&iv=0
4:51:47 PM	JulianLevens  So what time on the 28th?
4:52:59 PM	JulianLevens  Dormant reflects my personal status
4:53:05 PM	MichaelDaum  all of the remaining points in the agenda somewhat go together
4:53:13 PM	Lynnwood  The time of this meeting was very good for me,.
4:53:19 PM	uebera||  Ad time: Previously, we set 11:00 UTC.
4:53:46 PM	JulianLevens  Yes but that UTC was based on DST times
4:53:47 PM	Lynnwood  Yes, it occurs to me to address the project status topic via discussion of the other items on agenda. Then perhaps return to it.
4:54:05 PM	JulianLevens  We should probably adjust to 12:00 UTC
4:54:49 PM	MichaelDaum  what do you guys think about foswiki and what are you personally going to do about it?
4:55:09 PM	Lavr  time for GA. For me I am always in a management review from 14:30 to 15:30 Central Eu time. Before is best. After is OK
4:55:19 PM	Lavr  Yes. My personal situation. My company has moved to Google office suite which has good collaboration tools, and to Atlassian incl Confluence, Jira etc. So with us Foswiki is a thing of the past. And privately I passed on the Motion project to someone else who moved all to Github.
4:55:53 PM	JulianLevens  Lavr are the new tools as good
4:56:05 PM	Lavr  But I am still OK to be in the board and protect all the hard work we have done. But the project needs fresh young blood to continue.
4:56:28 PM	JulianLevens  I'd be happy with fresh enthusiasm
4:57:09 PM	JulianLevens  Lavr: Or to put it another way what could Foswiki learn from these other tools?
4:57:11 PM	Lavr  Julian as good? They both have one killer feature that Foswiki does not have and that is simultaneous editing.
4:57:27 PM	Lynnwood  I regularly review what other tools are out there that are as flexible in quickly building customized knowledge apps and i still think Foswiki is awesome.
4:57:40 PM	Lavr  We are very strong on the easy way to make small applications. It is the editing that is lacking behind
4:57:50 PM	JulianLevens  Simultaneous editing is a biggie
4:57:57 PM	Lynnwood  very true Lavr.
4:58:08 PM	Lynnwood  primary complaint i hear is about the editor.
4:58:30 PM	JulianLevens  I pretty sure I can bring SQL to Foswiki, joins and all
4:59:02 PM	JulianLevens  Is that just developer vanity or would it add real value
4:59:28 PM	Lynnwood  I have been thinking about creating set of instructional videos about setting up Foswiki (including NatSkin goodness) and creating first application. A way to ease the entry and encourage folks who have project idea but need help to get going.
4:59:30 PM	JulianLevens  It would also be able to join external tables from other databases
4:59:56 PM	MichaelDaum  there are a couple of areas in the core code that need a rewrite: users, search, meta data cache, slim down foswiki::ui level are the top culprits imho
5:00:05 PM	Lavr  Simultaneous collaboration. That is the killer. Without it all does not matter
5:00:05 PM	Lynnwood  While highlighting some of the rather unique virtues I see in Foswiki.
5:00:29 PM	MichaelDaum  sim edit is the least we need, sorry.
5:00:29 PM	Lavr  I am in lurking mode now. I have a meeting with a manager colleague from Chicago the next 30 mins
5:01:09 PM	JulianLevens  The big personal problem is this
5:01:27 PM	JulianLevens  I can see immense potential for Foswiki
5:01:58 PM	JulianLevens  But all my efforts may prove to be nothing
5:02:06 PM	JulianLevens  Because we do not have enough devs
5:02:52 PM	Lynnwood  I would think the way to attract new devs is to have them see Foswiki as good candidate for their next project.
5:03:08 PM	MichaelDaum  right
5:03:09 PM	JulianLevens  Lynnwood, Michael you work as consultants
5:03:09 PM	Lynnwood  Hard to attract them unless they see use.
5:03:13 PM	uebera||  We don't even have enough people who tend to "gardening" (maintining parts of the webs) or answering questions on IRC, ...
5:03:30 PM	MichaelDaum  JulianLevens, yes, full time.
5:03:53 PM	JulianLevens  And mostly Foswiki based consulting?
5:04:15 PM	MichaelDaum  when googling foswiki the old seifert videos still pop up. we need to create new ones. even small ones.
5:04:20 PM	JulianLevens  Lynnwood what about you?
5:04:22 PM	Lynnwood  Same for me. 90% foswiki.
5:04:30 PM	MichaelDaum  100% foswiki. nothing else.
5:04:45 PM	Lynnwood  And I do seem to get new requests on project with some regularity.
5:05:07 PM	MichaelDaum  Lynnwood and I we are working together for some clients in U.S.
5:05:24 PM	Lynnwood  Although to be honest, 2/3 of my work is for clients who have been using Foswiki for awhile.
5:05:29 PM	Lynnwood  years...
5:05:37 PM	JulianLevens  uebera||, does your work involve Foswiki
5:06:14 PM	uebera||  No. Unless I use it myself in the course of a project for internal reasons.
5:06:15 PM	JulianLevens  My last job had Foswiki, but it was never properly supported, I did the best to keep it alive
5:06:37 PM	JulianLevens  I'm freelancing again, but no Foswiki
5:06:56 PM	JulianLevens  The tools they are using for collaboration are rubbish
5:07:07 PM	JulianLevens  Although that could be implementation issues
5:07:22 PM	JulianLevens  and training, developing the right user attitudes etc
5:07:47 PM	JulianLevens  So, I'm left doing FW on the side with little feedback
5:07:57 PM	Lynnwood  I find most are too structured and hard to modify to local needs.
5:08:26 PM	JulianLevens  Yes, and I suspect management like 'too' structured in a lot of places
5:08:40 PM	Lynnwood  True enough...
5:09:00 PM	MichaelDaum  most devs we were in contact for a longer time in the past werent using foswiki themselves that much. that was my impression.
5:09:11 PM	MichaelDaum  which is okay.
5:10:08 PM	JulianLevens  Yes, and if there were still active devs it would give me feedback from others that fuels enthusiasm and ideas
5:10:50 PM	MichaelDaum  ic. maybe we should really create some videos and blog about things. if only for inspirational purposes.
5:10:57 PM	JulianLevens  Of course, I could become more active and create a spark
5:11:17 PM	JulianLevens  Yes that would be good
5:11:34 PM	JulianLevens  I always found the camps helped
5:11:43 PM	JulianLevens  At least they helped me
5:12:04 PM	JulianLevens  How about a video and blogging camp?
5:12:12 PM	Lynnwood  I have thought it might be useful to do some video demos of applications because some of the most interesting ones I've done are behind firewalls.
5:12:27 PM	uebera||  +1
5:12:29 PM	MichaelDaum  +1
5:12:43 PM	uebera||  "(Not so) typical use cases" might be a nice-to-have mini series.
5:13:16 PM	Lynnwood  exactly...
5:13:29 PM	MichaelDaum  we should coordinate the kind of videos we like to create
5:14:21 PM	Lynnwood  yes, and perhaps collaborate on some common branding around the project.
5:14:23 PM	MichaelDaum  I tend to use obs: https://obsproject.com/
5:14:35 PM	MichaelDaum  for screen recording
5:14:47 PM	uebera||  Nice.
5:14:59 PM	Lynnwood  nice. I haven't seen that one. I've used a proprietary one for mac.
5:15:13 PM	JulianLevens  And I'm clueless
5:15:33 PM	Lynnwood  I have found they are not hard.
5:15:42 PM	MichaelDaum  my son used it for his minecraft stuff. and some cutting tool ... forgotten which one.
5:16:00 PM	Lynnwood  but like anything, takes some time to get polished.
5:16:02 PM	JulianLevens  The basics are probably easy enough
5:16:16 PM	 Lynnwood remembers fondly the short period when kids were into minecraft.
5:17:21 PM	uebera||  Still, we need more hands on deck/be able to invest more time to tend to f.o than we currently do.
5:17:39 PM	Lynnwood  This is good discussion and I would support returning to it, but i think we should move on to immediate needs of next items.
5:17:39 PM	uebera||  Motivational videos are one thing, operations/maintenance are another.
5:17:57 PM	Lynnwood  4. regular release meetings
5:18:05 PM	Lynnwood  5. new release manager
5:18:20 PM	JulianLevens  BTW: Do we have much info on how many downloads we get for FW?
5:18:31 PM	MichaelDaum  on operations: to get the next release out we need weblate
5:18:48 PM	JulianLevens  How many companies are using FW, do we have any idea?
5:19:08 PM	MichaelDaum  no idea on numbers
5:19:47 PM	MichaelDaum  on 4) - how about we continue on videos during a next release meeting?
5:19:57 PM	MichaelDaum  as well as weblate
5:20:05 PM	JulianLevens  Sure
5:20:06 PM	Lynnwood  sounds good.
5:20:15 PM	Lynnwood  Regarding weblate, any idea how much work will be involved in converting existing language files?
5:20:39 PM	MichaelDaum  according to our Foswiki calendar the next release meeting would be coming Monday.
5:20:43 PM	Lynnwood  easy? difficult? starting over from scratch?
5:21:32 PM	uebera||  Lynnwood: Converting from what to what?
5:22:32 PM	MichaelDaum  https://foswiki.org/Development/FoswikiCalendar
5:23:21 PM	Lynnwood  Am i right or wrong in understanding weblate will supplant our language translation files?
5:23:39 PM	MichaelDaum  it reads and writes our po files
5:23:55 PM	MichaelDaum  as well as commits them to github
5:24:07 PM	Lynnwood  Great.
5:24:10 PM	MichaelDaum  somebody has to volunteer to set things up.
5:24:19 PM	Lynnwood  So doesn't replace but enhances manage of.
5:24:45 PM	Lynnwood  enough for now. we can revisit at release meeting.
5:24:49 PM	uebera||  There's an official docker image now (looked at it some weeks ago) and it's still a mess. Does also not address update related problems at all. Just serves as a test installation.
5:24:50 PM	MichaelDaum  modell aachen ran our previous server and has shut it down long time ago. there is a weblate running on foswiki.org yet not configured.
5:25:24 PM	uebera||  From the ML: "Weblate 3.9 will be released 15th of October"
5:26:09 PM	Lynnwood  I notice on their pricing page, they have a "Gratis for libre projects" option.
5:26:30 PM	Lynnwood  I would assume that's hosted by them so no maintaining server.
5:26:33 PM	uebera||  But setting it up/configuring and maintaining it is a lot of work. Yes, maybe we should consider the above as a makeshift option.
5:27:21 PM	uebera||  But this also does not address one problem we did not solve in the past: Who manages foreign languages we don't speak?
5:27:35 PM	uebera||  If we again attract numerous submissions and do not act on them…
5:27:46 PM	uebera||  And IMHO, that's a *huge
5:27:48 PM	uebera||
5:28:00 PM	uebera||  (sorry) ... that's a *huge* 'if'.
5:28:09 PM	Lynnwood  yes...
5:28:35 PM	uebera||  If we're the only ones ever accessing the po files, no need to bother with weblate as well.
5:30:05 PM	uebera||  But we should leave re-priorization to a release meeting.
5:30:28 PM	MichaelDaum  yes. I tend to hand write po files for plugins.
5:30:35 PM	MichaelDaum  at least the german translations.
5:31:21 PM	MichaelDaum  there are a few tools on the cmdline that lets you import translations from other po files while extracting marked strings.
5:32:08 PM	uebera||  I would look at https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_node/PO-Mode.html
5:32:16 PM	uebera||  But that's a personal preference.
5:32:16 PM	MichaelDaum  the point if setting up weblate is that if we dont we definitely will lose our translators we had before.
5:32:36 PM	uebera||  Question: Which translators do we still have?
5:32:53 PM	uebera||  I have not seen a single question "when will WL be available again?" on the ML or on IRC for years.
5:33:18 PM	uebera||  So IMHO we should ask first. No answer, no Weblate.
5:33:28 PM	MichaelDaum  I am not sure. we had a process to notify them once strings were frozen.
5:34:00 PM	uebera||  IMHO we should review all processes we used to have during the next development meetings. As a refresher/introduction.
5:34:48 PM	MichaelDaum  http://foswiki.org/Development/TranslationProcess
5:36:08 PM	Lynnwood  On the matter of release meetings, what do we need to have happen?
5:36:33 PM	JulianLevens  Personally I cannot make the usual time anymore
5:36:46 PM	MichaelDaum  shall we reschedule it?
5:36:55 PM	JulianLevens  Yes please
5:37:05 PM	MichaelDaum  btw there once was a translation mailing list https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/foswiki-translations
5:37:05 PM	JulianLevens  In principle I could be RM
5:37:15 PM	Lynnwood  I'll admit that was a tough day/time for me as well.
5:37:22 PM	JulianLevens  But probably not until Jan 2020
5:37:46 PM	JulianLevens  My last job was supported enough to let me attend
5:37:52 PM	Lynnwood  We're practically there anyway.
5:38:12 PM	JulianLevens  This I have to do in my own time back at home
5:38:45 PM	JulianLevens  And I should have a home by then ;)
5:38:58 PM	uebera||  We now have https://lists.foswiki.org/wws/info/foswiki-translations, but it's "dead".
5:39:51 PM	uebera||  IIRC, all subscribers received the info for every list we still use as of today.
5:40:18 PM	MichaelDaum  so what time is best having release meetings?
5:40:39 PM	MichaelDaum  Mondays at 1600 instead of 1400?
5:40:47 PM	Lynnwood  For myself, just a little later would be good.
5:40:47 PM	uebera||  Late(r) in the evening would be my preference, yes.
5:40:52 PM	JulianLevens  More like 18:00
5:40:59 PM	JulianLevens  17:00 at a pinch
5:41:01 PM	Lynnwood  1600 would be fine.
5:41:13 PM	Lynnwood  or any of those times are fine for me.
5:41:15 PM	MichaelDaum  JulianLevens, +1 on RM :D
5:41:48 PM	uebera||  Yes, +1 on RM.
5:41:57 PM	JulianLevens  Oh no, what have I done
5:42:49 PM	MichaelDaum  1800 is a bit late but okayish.
5:43:24 PM	uebera||  Great. Maybe we can make it shorter than this board meeting.
5:43:33 PM	JulianLevens  We'll have to see, it's not set in stone maybe 17:30
5:43:45 PM	MichaelDaum  +1 on 17:30
5:43:53 PM	uebera||  +1, 17:30 UTC.
5:44:01 PM	Lynnwood  +1 17:30
5:44:20 PM	JulianLevens  Ok, 17:30 at least to start with, from January
5:44:37 PM	 MichaelDaum updating the FW calendar
5:44:53 PM	Lynnwood  i'm willing to resume some manner of release meetings before then.
5:45:30 PM	Lavr  I am back from my meeting
5:45:34 PM	MichaelDaum  great: so we have revived our release meetings ... and theres a new release manager.
5:45:37 PM	Lavr  And beer in the glass
5:45:44 PM	MichaelDaum  Lavr, pft
5:45:49 PM	uebera||  At work?
5:45:53 PM	Lavr  I am home
5:46:13 PM	MichaelDaum  guys, I have to leave in a few minutes.
5:46:32 PM	Lynnwood  understood.
5:46:46 PM	MichaelDaum  I must say I am quite happy to have heard from you all.
5:47:07 PM	Lynnwood  perhaps briefly, on last item: what is priority/need for next release?
5:47:16 PM	Lynnwood  maintenance release or new features?
5:47:17 PM	Lavr  I have not read up the log but for the GA I am happy to take another turn as board member
5:47:37 PM	uebera||  Since this is the 1st board meeting for a long time: Do we want to change the Netcup server? We need to give notice before mid of December for this.
5:47:53 PM	uebera||  Lynnwood: I'd deal with a number of operations/maintenance related tasks before that, personally.
5:48:02 PM	uebera||  Unless there are "critical" fixes.
5:48:15 PM	MichaelDaum  btw 1730, summer time ends in a few days. so this means 1630 during winter time or move it to 17300 wintertime as well?
5:48:19 PM	Lynnwood  that's fine. I was just curious.
5:48:22 PM	JulianLevens  I've updated https://foswiki.org/Community/AssociationBoardMinutes20191010. with a summary
5:48:36 PM	JulianLevens  17:30 local time all year round
5:48:37 PM	Lynnwood  thanks JulianLevens!
5:49:15 PM	uebera||  JulianLevens: 17:30 UTC? Because 17:30 local time might lead to unexpected results… :)
5:50:25 PM	JulianLevens  Ok, from January 18:30 UTC, then when DST kicks in end March 19:30 UTC
5:51:52 PM	uebera||  Ah, I see. Some of you meant 17:30PM CET. Still ok-ish.
5:52:34 PM	JulianLevens  Yes I need to get home from work and need to allow commuting time
5:53:04 PM	uebera||  My point was that 17:30 UTC would be later than 17:30PM CET.
5:54:01 PM	JulianLevens  I thought it was the other way around
5:54:24 PM	JulianLevens  Right now CET is UTC+2
5:54:46 PM	JulianLevens  And will become UTC+1 at the end of October
5:55:18 PM	MichaelDaum  have to leave.
5:55:29 PM	JulianLevens  Bye Michael
5:55:43 PM	MichaelDaum  want the irc logs attached to the minutes topic?
5:55:48 PM	JulianLevens  Please
5:55:53 PM	Lynnwood  sounds good
5:56:32 PM	Lynnwood  so what time is it currently for you all?
5:56:40 PM	MichaelDaum  okay. bye. have a nice weekend.
5:56:45 PM	 MichaelDaum left the channel.
5:56:48 PM	Lynnwood  almost 6?
5:56:51 PM	uebera||  Lynnwood: 17:56:32
5:56:56 PM	Lynnwood  ok
5:57:07 PM	Lavr  Bye all
5:57:11 PM	uebera||  cu!
5:57:16 PM	Lynnwood  good bye
5:57:43 PM	Lynnwood  ...not leaving, just saying...
5:58:03 PM	uebera||  Lynwood: dito. Did I understand you correctly that you'll send the letter to (former) members?
5:58:12 PM	Lynnwood  yes.
5:58:19 PM	JulianLevens  Bye
5:58:27 PM	Lynnwood  i'll draft that and send out to you all for feedback
5:58:32 PM	uebera||  Great.

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