Session Start: Mon Nov 03 19:02:01 2008 Session Ident: #nextwiki [19:02] * Now talking in #nextwiki [19:02] * Topic is 'Agenda is at http://www.twikifork.org/Community/CommunityMeeting2008x11x03; if you are here for help, please visit #twiki_fork' [19:02] * Set by CDot on Mon Nov 03 18:46:06 [19:02] Hello there everyone [19:02] Good evening [19:02] My skype name is productbox if someone can do the honours [19:02] Are we on skype? [19:02] Where? [19:02] Hi Martin, [19:02] SamHasler: done [19:02] I was just wondering that too! ;) [19:02] some of us are on skype [19:02] If we do skype my name is kennethlavrsen on Skype [19:03] Do you have a conference? [19:03] My name is either kalyxo or mseibert. :-) [19:03] we are trying [19:03] * uebera|| in listening mode... will we have a recording or summary attached to the CommunityMeeting200x11x03 topic afterwards? ;) [19:03] who do I call on skype? [19:03] Who is hosting the Skype meeting? [19:03] Will anything go on in text? I've always disliked voice conference calls, you spend half the time trying to find out who's who and what they're saying :) Not trying to stop the call here tho', just saying [19:04] [off] CDot mymayer has started a call and CDot you are showing up offline so change your status [19:04] CDot: qry me with your name [19:04] RasmusPraestholm: as much as possible should be text [19:04] Cool [19:04] * pattdi has joined #nextwiki [19:04] my skype is playing silly buggers; may be academic. [19:04] Any sign of gmc? He [19:04] My skype name is "kalyxo". [19:04] said he would chair [19:05] manoman, the mac mini cpu fan cable really isn't a nice thing for someone that's sleep derprived [19:05] Why don't we simply stay on IRC? [19:05] hi :) [19:05] we will stay on IRC. [19:05] On Skype ONE must setup the conference and call the others in [19:05] Who does that? [19:05] we are just waiting for gmc to take the chair [19:05] i believe EugenEsch is trying to do that [19:06] OK [19:06] Lavr: And if somebody wants to join late you have to disconnect and do it again. Forget it. [19:06] can whoever's hosting the skype call invite me? Username: SamHasler [19:06] MartinSeibert, you just add it. it's pretty simple. [19:06] i do it all the time :) [19:06] yay, mac mini with osx server, skype starting - skypename : Sven Dowideit [19:06] SvenDowideit i means [19:06] be sure to change your skype status to available [19:06] am booting my trusted w2k fro skype. [19:07] There is Eugen, Travis, Andre, Rafael, Sam and Martin on skype right now. [19:07] howdy [19:07] I'm not on my home machine with Skype, but anybody who wants to add me for future reference feel free: Cervator [19:07] * ktwilight_ 's skype is keliew [19:07] Let's do that the next time. [19:07] i'm sonolo4 i think [19:07] skypename: productbox [19:07] * MartinCleaver has joined #nextwiki [19:07] working [19:07] The skype thing will keep us busy for 30 minutes without effect. [19:08] Lets stay on IRC! [19:08] MartinSeibert: +1 [19:08] i'm signed in.. [19:08] * Wolf_Marbach has joined #nextwiki [19:08] We are 7 ppl now [19:08] Everybody can write. Everybody knows how to get connected. [19:08] EugenEsch, add keliew [19:08] * GilmarSantosJr is at work and no skype here... [19:09] See ... [19:09] EugenEsch - did you get my skype id lynnwoodbrown? [19:09] 8 mins in, and counting [19:09] Who wants to facilitate the meeting? [19:09] gmc: said he would chair [19:09] Crawford: Would you please do that? [19:09] ok, so no skype? [19:09] Ah. [19:09] There he is. [19:09] No: No skype! [19:09] no skype, then i will chair :) [19:09] please do [19:09] 9 ow [19:09] Perfect. [19:09] sounds good. let's proceed [19:10] Let's start. [19:10] who's doing the minutes? [19:10] gmc: qry me with your name [19:10] and proper style minutes! not just irc log [19:10] * Jens__ has joined #nextwiki [19:10] We all could be working. Let's not waste valuable time. [19:10] I will summarise the log as minutes [19:10] I can minute. [19:10] ok [19:10] Lavr_: you have it [19:10] OK [19:10] * CDot cracks a beer [19:10] so lets start then.. [19:10] Perfect. [19:10] :) [19:10] :-) [19:10] we've got a lot of points to cover.. [19:11] 1. governance [19:11] interim figure head [19:11] and short-term project management [19:11] I say "no" to a BDFL and "no" to a core team [19:11] I think we can live without. [19:11] * SvenDowideit potters back to the lounge :) [19:11] * Jens__ is now known as Jens [19:11] I say "yes" to a task-team taking responsibility for media and new people comms, tho [19:11] If you want one, the only ones I see in this position are MichaelDaum and CrawfordCurrie. [19:12] second [19:12] * Jens is now known as Guest80855 [19:12] +1 [19:12] +1 [19:12] Crawford: But that is a task team. [19:12] where is michaeldaum btw? [19:12] gmc is chair, Lavr is taking minutes? [19:12] Soronthar: correct [19:12] Lavr is on minutes [19:12] k [19:12] and to clarify what is the motion? [19:13] I would apply to for a job to answer media inquiries. [19:13] TravisBarker: we're talking about a figure head, but thats being dismissed.. [19:13] I would help out with caring for new people. [19:13] isn't that the job of MarketingTaskTeam btw? [19:13] ok, i think the problem was the name [19:13] MartinSeibert: you are already doing a great job "meeting and greeting" [19:13] i wanted to suggest having _one_ person designated (for a period) [19:13] * ktwilight_ has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection) [19:13] But it sometimes takes me 1,5 weeks to process my mails. That is bad if 2 people cheer for us per day. :-) [19:13] as being the welcoming comitee [19:14] ok, then i designate martin, who has been doing a great job [19:14] who will spend time not being otherwise productive, even if they could be [19:14] ie, hangs out in irc [19:14] madated until our next meeting [19:14] +1 for marting for the "greeting and meeting" [19:14] mandated [19:14] +1 [19:14] +1 [19:14] and spends time telling new people what they can work on [19:14] +1 [19:14] +1 [19:14] +1 [19:14] which is not a task MartinSeibert has shown time to do - he has a business to run [19:15] I am dreaming of a task list for non-programmers for a long time. [19:15] I have done a bit of that, with people who come to me directly [19:15] +1 but I would like to have more personal answers [19:15] i also mean this to be a one month mandate type thing [19:15] So are we making one person have that role, or can we make a group? I'd suggest group, and be happy to be part of it (at least later when I know what tasks to hand out) [19:15] a mechanism i've used is having a second level team of greeters in different areas [19:15] you need a group to support the one person [19:15] Right: I cannot hang out on IRC. Sorry. :-) [19:15] I say, make Martin the point man, let him identify (co-opt) his backups [19:15] but the one person is to make it simple and obvious for new people [19:15] I would like a group for it [19:15] But who wants do to that as a job? [19:15] RasmusPraestholm: we are starting with one person until we have the infrastructure to coordinate a group [19:15] * ktwilight has joined #nextwiki [19:15] Then MartinSeibert could direct new person to one of these other folks to help based on area of interest [19:15] SvenDowideit: none of us can hang out on irc 24/7.. we sure try.. [19:15] I will happily back Martin up with techies [19:16] I nominate SvenDowideit for the IRC job [19:16] question is... once we have the person, what will be on the site to make it clear? [19:16] it'd have to be [19:16] +1 for Sven, if he wants. [19:16] "All your questions belongs to XXXXXXXX"? [19:16] On IRC we all need to share it. it is more the email part we need someone to do i [19:16] * ColasHome has joined #nextwiki [19:16] agreed [19:16] yep [19:16] indeed, and i think martin is our man, so lets move on? [19:16] and picking me or cdot will raise hell for us, cos peter will use it [19:16] ok [19:16] move on [19:16] Yep, I can take the email part. [19:16] stop [19:17] Guest80855: ? [19:17] who is Guest80855 ? [19:17] At least for the non-technicians. [19:17] :) [19:17] jens [19:17] Guest80855: do a /nick Wolfthing [19:17] oh yes.. [19:17] * gmc is now known as Jens [19:17] * Jens is now known as gmc [19:17] we need a nutral mail for answering questions [19:17] (sorry :) [19:17] Guest80855: i think we dont need to go into those details here and now [19:17] * Guest80855 is now known as Jens___ [19:18] I am confident with Martin doing it. He has done well so far [19:18] if you have an opinion re that mail, please contact MartinSeibert later by mail or chat [19:18] Are we following: http://twikifork.org/Community/CommunityMeeting2008x11x03 [19:18] ACTION: MartinSeibert to act as point man for queries and coordinate new folks; all others to provide backup and help out as he requires [19:18] MichaelCorbett: yes [19:18] Because if we are, then I am confused [19:18] MichaelCorbett: we are at 1.1 [19:18] or rather.. we were.. [19:19] we're now moving to 1.2 [19:19] project management [19:19] I will put up a document, that describes what I will do and how. [19:19] and you're doing great gmc [19:19] * CDot votes "no" to an IGT [19:19] what is IGT? [19:19] Interim Govenrance Team [19:19] * GilmarSantosJr +1 [19:19] (short description ) [19:19] No IGT needed. Agree only roles on specifics [19:19] project mgmt [19:19] not igt [19:19] What is IGT-like thingy? [19:20] someone to track what we want to do [19:20] and to remind us when we forgot something [19:20] that should be a group / team [19:20] do you have a proposal? [19:20] no to igt here [19:20] Action item for MartinSeibert: Create a document that describes the role of the "media man" in detail and make it transparent. Offer to be supported by others and actively ask for it. Create a backup-person as soon as possible. [19:20] it does not need to be a team [19:20] (igt was for setting up an association, ubt thats being handled already) [19:20] as its a task that does not need full time attention [19:20] just a seperate pov from the people doig the work [19:20] So, we need a person/group to monitor the activities of the task teams? is that it? [19:20] imho that is a TaskTeam [19:21] i'd love to ask if Wolf_Marbach could help us with it [19:21] No need for IGT at the moment. [19:21] it is a Team [19:21] its not an igt, stop bringing up igt [19:21] We will need a board for the association though ... [19:21] task coordinator? [19:21] CDot, ya [19:21] if the IGT is for setting up an assosiation, its done allready so we have a team [19:21] ewait [19:21] sheesh [19:21] Soronthar: we need someone who keeps a high-level overview of what needsd to be done, what is being done, and when it needs to be done [19:21] I am all for the controller of the TaskTeams! [19:21] what are we talking about? a governance body or a project management team? (different beasts) [19:21] Yes. The association has a task team. [19:21] ffs [19:22] Soronthar: project mgt team, igt has been skipped already [19:22] +1 [19:22] right [19:22] NOT IGT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT [19:22] Somebody who bothers. [19:22] good [19:22] stay on topic [19:22] -> we're talking about project management <- [19:22] So, is a team that monitors other teams [19:22] someone to tick of things from the release plan [19:22] * IgorNikolic has joined #nextwiki [19:22] Who puts the finger in the wound. [19:22] Sven: Thanks for mentionoing me, what do you mean in detail? [19:22] Somebody who continously follows up. [19:22] HI [19:22] * sayotte has joined #nextwiki [19:22] hi IgorNikolic, we're discussing 1.2 from http://www.twikifork.org/bin/view/Community/CommunityMeeting2008x11x03#foo_42: project management [19:22] What about the TWiki-Janitor? [19:22] I think the rubber stamping of task teams never really worked on t.o. Let us let the task teams form them selves the next weeks and enjoy seeing work actually get done [19:22] Is it Rafael? [19:22] thanks. [19:22] SvenDowideit: that is the ReleaseManager [19:22] someone that can take an overview of what we'd like to do [19:22] someone who watches to make sure tasks gets done, and kicks up when they don't [19:22] no Soronthar its not [19:23] what projekts are we talking about [19:23] someone that is not busy trying to do the tasks [19:23] * ktwilight has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) [19:23] and the release mgrs are busy doing stuff [19:23] * carlo- has joined #nextwiki [19:23] CDot: +1 [19:23] technikal, fork, media [19:23] what is the motion on the floor? [19:23] Assign tasks and proactively ask people to solve them. [19:23] hi carlo-, we're discussing 1.2 from http://www.twikifork.org/bin/view/Community/CommunityMeeting2008x11x03#foo_42: project management [19:23] +1 [19:23] hello everyone [19:23] TravisBarker: no motion, just discussion [19:23] the idea is to have a small check&balance to get us out the door [19:23] * ktwilight has joined #nextwiki [19:23] the ticks in the todo list are made by the release manager as the task are finished, but someone must monitor that the tasks are being ticked [19:23] Hi Carlo. [19:24] without them distracted by working [19:24] & assoication forming [19:24] SvenDowideit: while I like the idea, I'm not sure I can put a finger on anyone in a position to do it. [19:24] * MartinRowe has joined #nextwiki [19:24] ok, i can't talk through all this off topic stuff [19:24] Someone suggested me as the release manager for the first urgent release. And I volunteer for this if OK. [19:24] GMD: +1, just coordination. [19:24] I am for the TWikiJanitor? [19:24] Wolf_Marbach: you've been nominated, do you understand what for and would you want to pick up that task? [19:24] CDot, as i suggested [19:24] Wolf_Marbach, is a PM [19:24] MartinSeibert: twikijanitor has nothing to do with this [19:24] if we can persuade him that we can give him enough details [19:24] *sight* [19:24] [off] this is gettin' annoying :/ [19:25] then perhaps he can offer us a different pov [19:25] Sven: Taht is true [19:25] we should release from other projects [19:25] i'm about to go back to bed [19:25] SvenDowideit: OK, if Wolf_Marbach is willing, I will help support. [19:25] [off] we have so much noice here. [19:25] I missed what Wolf would do??? [19:25] I'm still not clear what are we discussing, really [19:25] cos i cannot take the noise [19:25] Who was that? [19:25] I am for Lavr as release manager! [19:25] gmc: The TWikiJanitor has the skills to follow up. I think it is Rafael. [19:25] guys.. [19:25] please all stfu now [19:25] Its ok for me but have to clarify the scope of work [19:25] MartinSeibert, this is not release mgr [19:25] we are not talking about release manager.. we are talking about project manager [19:25] Wolf would be the project-management-office with the overview. :-) [19:26] MartinSeibert, that is the _only_ thing we are discussing right now [19:26] [off] People you are on flame to help but please reduce the written lines and also read. Please try to go for the topic one for one [19:26] Yes, but there will be more discussions [19:26] what should the project manager do? [19:26] Wolf_Marbach: do you accept the post of project manager? [19:26] about the actual scope within a smaller group [19:26] I think the activities on nextwiki.org are going wel since it's creation. [19:26] ar at least, for kicking of that post [19:26] * LarsEik has joined #nextwiki [19:27] Yes, but need some more communication [19:27] (me is thinking about +v :) [19:27] i don't see the need for a project manager in short term [19:27] Soronthar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_management [19:27] Wolf_Marbach: ok, lets do that outside this meeting! [19:27] GilmarSantosJr, we need to release fast [19:27] it's not a short answer [19:27] gmc: 100% agree. Moderate it [19:27] that requires strong focus [19:27] gmc: ok [19:27] and a PM will help us optimise that [19:27] yup [19:27] the release can be well isolated from all the other activities. [19:27] I know what PM is, but I'm not sure what we want to accomplish [19:27] are we talking about the first release? [19:27] i'm cofused [19:27] Lavr: agree [19:27] Suggestion: for side remarks, discussions, use #twiki_fork, to reduce noise here [19:27] Wolf_Marbach, we're going to have to refine the role elsewhere [19:28] GilmarSantosJr, yes [19:28] release is 2.4 point... [19:28] please shut up about the release. Different problem. [19:28] Sven : exactly [19:28] ------------------------> STOP [19:28] wolf accepted.. only if you think wolf is totally incapable of project management, speak up now [19:28] if not, we move on! [19:28] I still need to know what you mean with PM [19:28] :/ [19:28] yes [19:28] * MartinSeibert quiet. [19:28] right project manager for entire project [19:28] * MartinSeibert is quiet. [19:28] coordinate and track all t he task teams [19:28] and if wolf is willing to lead that, I say yea! [19:28] and would be willing to support that effort [19:28] +1 [19:28] do we have agreement on that? suddenly very quiet... [19:28] +1 [19:28] We were told to stfu. :-) [19:29] Lynnwood: yes [19:29] at minimum track the next release [19:29] +1 [19:29] Coordinate task teams PM. Then I am for [19:29] the rest is gravy [19:29] So, a coordinator for the task teams. [19:29] project manager: see who's doing what, what needs to be done, that it is actually done and when it needs to be done [19:29] then yes +1 [19:29] Track release then NO [19:29] we need a PM to make sure we get the release done well [19:29] no, not release, lavr=release manager, no discussion necesarry :) [19:29] ----------------------> no positive feedback guys, only "no i dont want that" ... its only noice then [19:29] gmc: good description [19:29] Lavr_, you can't do that job [19:29] release is a task team; different problem, already covered. [19:29] you're actually working o the release [19:29] i dont like having what appear to be votes during a discussion period [19:29] lavr. release manager [19:30] me too [19:30] discussion ended [19:30] next! [19:30] i asked, anyone against Wolf as project mgr, noone objecte, wolf = pm! [19:30] ----------------------------> 2. Short term priorities [19:30] gmc: ok [19:30] -------------------------> 2.1 name and logo [19:30] I am all for wolf to coordinate and follow up on the tasks others do not fulfill. [19:30] name > release > press release > party [19:31] i suggest 5 minutes of disucssion on the names [19:31] AndreU: has leetter to nextEngine gone? [19:31] free-form discussion [19:31] starting _now_ [19:31] collabra etc i like :) [19:31] seems familiar tho [19:31] letter to next engine [19:31] is there an existing wiki page on proposed names? [19:31] * CDot had his say by striking out nasty names in the topic [19:31] are we discussing names here? [19:31] yes. [19:31] http://www.twikifork.org/Community/FindingANewNameLocked [19:31] 2.1.1!! [19:31] are sticking to the flow? [19:32] http://twikifork.org/Community/FindingANewNameLocked#Meeting_references [19:32] I send the email out [19:32] My wife has a lot of experience on brand names. She has offered to make a short questionaire for US to help us select the right name once we are down to maybe 8 candidate names [19:32] please, refer to nams by their numbers [19:32] also, there's responsibility [19:32] ktwilight: we're on free-form discussion now.. i see 2.1 as one big point, not 3 smaller.. [19:32] We need a professional name not fancy stuff to take the project serious [19:32] 2.1.1.: I'd say it wouldn't hurt to say "hello", "sorry" and ask. [19:33] NextEngine: We have all to loose and nothing to win asking them. [19:33] english professional name not some alibabaalihubicrapola [19:33] gmc: Does it make sense to vote off half the suggestions on that list ? [19:33] Wolf_Marbach, y, shame 'professional' is different in everyones heads [19:33] voting on irc is not practical if you have 50 names [19:33] gmc, o [19:33] we are _not_ going to vote now i think [19:34] michaeldaum is not here.. [19:34] I agree, a name already free with an avialable .com would be much less hassles [19:34] And: ArthurClemens is not here. [19:34] On naming - we're probably not going to find a single name everybody will be thrilled to support. Next & Open have a fair degree of support, any opposition if trademark / domain issues are resolved? [19:34] Seven: what do you suggest instead? [19:34] i move to table the name issue to a discussion and vote on a wiki topic [19:34] but his suggestion was: put as much feedback on the wiki topic, he will go into another round with the copywriter [19:34] CDot, I sent the letter out to nextMachine [19:34] and then we vote asynchronous [19:35] AndreU: great. :) [19:35] i don't atm, we're pretty polarised atm [19:35] I would propose making a first vote on the name topic and define the top 8. And then take my wife's offer to help us choose the right. [19:35] "put it in mutunga" does not have a nice ring to it :) [19:35] * MartinSeibert is completely overwhelmed with what the community and the copywriter came up with. I do not have strong feelings about the name. That is why I will not join the discussion until we are down to a decent number, say 7 names. The current situation is way to complex for me. :-) [19:35] MartinSeibert: my sentiment exactly :) [19:35] we're pretty close to 7 [19:35] there are 22 as we speak. [19:35] if you ignore all strikeout [19:35] MartinSeibert: well said. [19:35] really? [19:35] ok, so time to strike some more [19:36] strikeout *wiki* [19:36]